WoW Classic seeks to recreate the "vanilla WoW" experience—that is, WoW as it existed before a series of seven game-altering major expansion packs from 2007's The Burning Crusade to 2018's Battle for Azeroth. To achieve this, Blizzard has rebuilt the game based on archived data from back in 2005 and 2006 (patch 1.12 is the goalpost—the current game is on patch 8.1.5). The company has committed to meticulously presenting the experience exactly as it was back then—warts and all—with only a small number of unavoidable or critical changes.
It seems the first stress test didn't quite do the job yet, as Blizzard are scheduling a second one next week, due to more issues with the first one than were anticipated (mainly of the login screen variety). Everyone that was invited to the first one will also be invited to the second, the level cap will be raised to 10 and it will also be available for a full day, starting at 2pm PDT on Wednesday, May 29th.

For the duration of the fight, creatures in the immediate area will not be visible to you (but they may still attack you if they wander too close). Keep in mind that other players will still be able to see you and attack you if you are eligible for player vs. player (PVP). Other players will also be able to view your pet battle in real time, including the pets involved as well as their health as the match progresses.
Swim Speed Potions (used especially at lvl 37 for Faldir's Cove in Arathi Highlands and lvl 57 in WPL).  Try to get multiple stacks of these.  I also recommend keeping a stack of these always in your bags.  You will frequently pass rivers and lakes and can use these potions to pass them faster through out the guide.  Please note that these potions do not stack with Druid's Aquatic Form and Glyph of Aquatic Form.
Some huge (and tiny) news coming out of the PTR today, as we're finally getting some mount size adjustments for Gnomes and Tauren! This has been a long-standing issue since...well since Vanilla really, with Tauren getting stuck on doorways and a lot of the mounts for both races never looking quite right. Well, today Gnomes can catch their mount's reins for the first time and Tauren... well they might fit through some doorways. The change only applies to "normal" size mounts for Tauren, as smaller ones (like hyenas) remain unchanged. Blizzard can now also fix issues where some mounts appear too small for certain races and they're looking into it.
Hey folks! I’ve got a small update here to help quell some of the rumors and let you know where we are at for WoW Classic. We recently began a phase of internal employee alpha testing. The new build data that many of you have been discussing over the last few days is simply part of this process. Phases like this allow us to test out the game content along with other functionality that will be used in the live game, like logging in through the Blizzard Battle.net 175 App.
I used Zygor for legion and BFA, used AA on an alt for BFA. Personally i like Zygors format more. I like being able to target things like achievements. I used Zygor to get my Mindworm and my Lucid Nightmare as well as finish the Rep grinds for the allied races. I have zero complaints. My experience was great. I also used Zygor for some professions, recipe acquisition, a couple mounts, all of the Suramar quest line. Thank God for that. And for the last zone of Draenor on my Demon Hunter.. i forget the name.. Whatever the big daily hub thing was called.
Some huge (and tiny) news coming out of the PTR today, as we're finally getting some mount size adjustments for Gnomes and Tauren! This has been a long-standing issue since...well since Vanilla really, with Tauren getting stuck on doorways and a lot of the mounts for both races never looking quite right. Well, today Gnomes can catch their mount's reins for the first time and Tauren... well they might fit through some doorways. The change only applies to "normal" size mounts for Tauren, as smaller ones (like hyenas) remain unchanged. Blizzard can now also fix issues where some mounts appear too small for certain races and they're looking into it.
Other methods have been discussed. For example, mods could be crippled. DBM didn't exist back then, and the other boss that did that I don't remember the name of, didn't do as much back then as DBM does now. If our goal is to recreate the experience as it was, then obviously not having DBM would be a reasonable way to accomplish that. DBM simply existing, makes the game today easier than it was. So disallow it. Again, this is completely consistent with the spirit of vanilla. Remember one-button-decursing? That was nerfed. They crippled the capabilities of the modding API to disallow that because it made the game too easy. So what if they cripple it a little bit more to once again make the game less easy?

Workaround as a player is simply to skip forward past that step in the guide, at which point it has steps for the other quests. I'm still on Bleakrock as that character, so I don't know if a duplicate "begin the evacuation" step exists after you've found all the missing people. In either case, just don't talk to Captain Rana about evacuating until you've completed all the other main/sidequests on Bleakrock, which are listed at the UESP link above.

Much like an encounter with a wild pet team, PVP Pet Battles are turn-based. However, unlike the PVE version, the PVP combat system is timed and any ability for each round must be chosen within that time limit otherwise it will assume you have passed a turn. A time penalty is applied if you take more than 15 seconds to choose an action, resulting in progressively shorter round timers for you.
Extract ConsolePort to Interface/Addons. The addon can be downloaded through the Twitch app too. Make sure the addon is enabled when you log in to the game. Install WoWMapper and connect the controller to your PC via cable or bluetooth. Make sure the controller is recognized by your operating system. Log in to the game and make sure ConsolePort is enabled. Now it's time to choose your controller layout. Grats, you can now start playing the game with a controller. (Optional) Enable Action Camera for extra immersion by typing /console ActionCam full, /console ActionCam basic or /console ActionCam default, depending on whichever you prefer most. You can turn it off by typing /console ActionCam off command.
On March 23, 2018, Zygor Guides announced that they would end support for their ESO guide. Later, via answers given on the forums, they confirmed they would not add a leveling guide for Summerset. Their guide is Public Domain with Zygor's blessing for the community to create guides. So I took it upon myself to create a Summerset guide for the ESO community.
Step-by-step class guides are on the way!  The 1-12 Mulgore Guide is the first guide to get all the individual class steps.  At the top of the guide, simply select which class you are playing and the page will dynamically update all the steps in the guide for that class (both text and images).  The rest of the guides will be slowly updated overtime to include all the class steps, but you can see how it's going to work with the 1-12 Mulgore.  I want to thank crazyK and his Placeholderguild for helping me out with the individual class content.  They are allowing me to get the 1-60 Alliance guide done while also getting all the class steps done at the same time, so everything can be ready for Classic launch (hopefully).
Hey! Just came back from the game, looking to play bfa but i had no idea what to do when i logged on. It was all a bit confusing and i know nothing about the current content. So after some frustration i bought zygor again (haven't used it since cata ..) and i do currently feel more comfortable. I'm following the guides from the 'suggested' tab in zygor but i'm just really unsure if what i'm doing is even relevant. I know the end of the expansion is coming so i'd hate to waste my time. OK i will list the things it's been telling me to do.
Different qualities aren't limited only to wild pets—many rare World drops and special non-wild companions have had their stats boosted. For example, the world-drop dragon whelps (Azure Whelpling, Crimson Whelpling, Dark Whelpling, and Emerald Whelpling) are of [rare] quality. Check your Pet Journal to see the color-coded rarity of your non-wild pets.

Even though the guide was developed with a hunter, the guide can be followed by any class.  Except you have to do your class's quests which aren't a whole lot.  I do have full intention to make my guide friendly with all classes in the future by listing all of their steps as well.  There will be a toggle that allows you to show which class's steps you want to see in the guide.  But this is coming later.


Through out the game, the quest log will be capped to 20 many times.  The guide makes use of maximizing the total amount of quests you can accept at once.  Because of this it is important to follow the guide exactly and only accept quests if the guide tells you to so you won't run into issues not being able to accept a quest.  If you do accept a quest that is not listed in the guide, write it down because you may need to abandon it in order to keep following the guide if your quest log is full.
Blizzard have announced that the invites for today's stress test have all gone out, with a reminder there are more tests coming, as well as clarified how exactly the general invite process works. Also, unfortunately for everyone that doesn't have one yet, they're also sending out fewer and fewer beta invites, as they're nearing their goals for current testing. 
Well, I think, a “wall of of text” is not defined by the amount of characters. To create a wall of text you need two things: lots of characters, and lots of missing line breaks / paragraphs. I’m completely aware of that, and I’m always trying to section and format my texts in a manner that makes it usable for readers ;) I think the limit of 990 chars is not contributing to avoid walls of text. (It’s easy to build a a wall of text with only 500 chars, but I think you got what I mean…)
Nov 9 Where to begin with healing? Since I began playing I've only done DPS, and starting to just generally get burned out on it. I decided I wanted to try to level a Healer, but in no MMO to date have I ever actually played a healer. For a novice healer, what class would be good for mostly PVE content (Super guildless across all toons so not expecting to heal outside of LFD/LFR for awhile) with some battlegrounds when I max out. Note: My PC isn't entirely enjoying when I use too many add ons for some reason, so will not be using any of the healing addons. Do take this into account.Satus8 Nov 9
 ":"  -  Any time a step ends in a ":" instead of a "." means that the next step is part of the current step you are on.  This generally means the next step should be done while working on the current step.  This means every "start working on" or "continue working on" will end in a ":".  But this is used with other occasions as well, so keep this in mind.
Apr 2, 2018 [Guide] WoW Game Tokens *****UPDATE TO WOW TOKENS***** Effective: February, 6th, 2017 You can now use WoW Tokens for Battle.net Balance when you purchase one off of the AH. You may find further information on this new update to the WoW Token System here! Trade a WoW Token for Battle.net Balance: https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/news/20542016 *****Original Version of this Guide***** Hello to all new and veteran World of Warcraft Players! Welcome to my extensive guide regarding the new World of Warcraft Game Tokens! :-) Which Patch did World of Warcraft Game Tokens launch?: The World of Warcraft Game Tokens were launched in World of Warcraft on April, 7th, 2015. When will the Game Tokens be available to World of Warcraft Players?: Game Tokens started to roll out first on realms that are serving (North America, Oceania, and Latin America). After this it had become expanding to other regions in weeks after the release of Game Tokens on North American Realms. What is the cost for World of Warcraft Game Tokens?: For Canadians the price is $25.00 CAD For New Zealand residents the price is $32 NZD ($23 USD) here, which includes 15% GST For U.S. Residents the price is $20.00 USD Where can I purchase the World of Warcraft Game Token?: You can purchase the WoW Game Token from the in-game shop. If you choose to purchase it for usage on your Battle.net Account from the Auction House there will be a new tab called "Game Time". WoW Tokens will be listed at a base price of 30,000 gold. However note though that the price for WoW Tokens can go below 30,000 gold or climb up in price. Prices are based on demand for these tokens. How much times may you use the WoW Game Token?: You may use the token ONLY on the Auction House! Once it's sold it is Soul Bound to the buyer and can only be used (1) time to redeem for game time for your World of Warcraft account. Once sold as well the seller will receive the gold they sold it for! Can I set my own price for the token when selling on the Auction House?: At this time, Blizzard has stated upon listing it onto the Auction House, A pre-set price determined by Blizzard will be the listing price. This price may go up or down pending on the sale(s) of the WoW Token in each region. You cannot at this time set your own personal price for the WoW Token! The current price you sell the WoW Game Token for in the Auction House is set at 30,000 gold. However note though that the price for WoW Tokens can go below 30,000 gold or climb up in price. Prices are based on demand for these tokens. May I buy the token if my account is inactive?: YES! The option to purchase the token will additionally be on the character select menu if your character has the gold to purchase them. May I purchase the WoW Token with my local currency?: Tokens can only be purchased in US currency at the moment. If the system is trying to use Euros, For example, it's not going to go through - or indeed, give you that option. Will Recruit a Friend Work with these tokens?: YES! They will count just like game cards for your friend you recruited! I'm getting a grey button that states "Not enough Gold", But I'm certain I got the correct amount. What does this mean?: You would get this error in question if you have enough gold if there is not enough World of Warcraft Tokens for sale on the market. In this case, Please try again later when more are in-stock. Is there a limit of WoW Tokens I may purchase per month to sell?: Yup. The limit you may sell is capped at (10) tokens every (7) days. I spent the correct amount of gold, But did not receive the token? What do I do?: Blizzard is aware of this bug and the developers have announced that the gold spent would be returned to the person(s) that purchased the token off the Auction House! You should expect it to return via in-game mail. When buying a token can I use gold from both factions?: Yes. You may purchase the token using gold from both your Alliance and Horde characters! Please note though that the gold pulled from your character(s) all come from the same realm the character(s) are on. You cannot pull gold from multiple realms at this time! May I purchase tokens using my Battle.net Balance?: Yes, If you have the sufficient funds you will be able to! Xanlorash [The Insane] Looking for more World of Warcraft Token information - Please refer to post below! Thank-you!Xanlorash3 Apr 2, 2018
The primary goal of Conflict and Strife is to provide an interesting choice in PvP by allowing access to an extra PvP Talent. It’s not necessarily going to be a strong option for PvE. The acquisition of this Essence is via PvP, and is totally optional for PvE-focused players. While there may be interesting PvE uses for some of the choices, it is not expected to be a strong competitor on usual PvE criteria (like total throughput) on every spec.
But how do you proportionally resize the swing? Even if you did, it wouldn’t give you the same type of joy as when you were a kid, because you have grown up and changed. Even if that wasn’t the case for you, you have to consider that the swing has become a place that is sacred for many other adults. When they visit, they aren’t visiting to try out the new adult-swing. They want to try the old swing. The one that brings back the joyful memories of distant past. They know that the experience isn’t the same, but if they close their eyes ... even for a brief moment ... they just might get that nostalgic thrill that brings them back to a time where things seemed so much simpler.

Kaivax, a WoW forum community manager, revealed that WoW Classic's class design, battleground mechanics and stats on existing items will be set to their 1.12 state, despite the game releasing content that expands beyond that. This removes "progressive itemization," so if the stats on a specific piece of equipment was changed during the original updates, that won't take effect in this version.
The first stress test began earlier today, and as such Bornakk added that Blizzard has already finished sending out invites for it. If you’re not aware, Blizzard has made it known a few days ago that players may be opted into the stress test even if they’re not officially part of the beta, as the developer is looking to really push some load into the servers. The community manager then went on to clear some specifics with regards to how they choose people for the beta and stress test.
Zygor's Leveling Guide for The Elder Scrolls Online (PC Version) is an in-game, software based, strategy guide that will show you the quickest way to level your characters from 1-50. You can view and use the guide directly inside the game without having to print out anything or view the guide in a browser. This also means that our guides are dynamic and can track your progress in realtime.
“To fill our pool of beta and stress test participants, we’ll be choosing dedicated players who meet select criteria from both the WoW Classic beta opt-in and the standard Warcraft beta opt-in. Participants will also need to have an active subscription or active game time on their Battle.net Account. While opting-in to the beta is the primary way to make sure you’re in the running to join the test it doesn’t guarantee an invitation to the closed beta test. We may also consider additional factors such as how long a player has been subscribed to the game so that we have the right mix of players to ensure great feedback toward making WoW Classic the very best experience for the community.”

Well, I think, a “wall of of text” is not defined by the amount of characters. To create a wall of text you need two things: lots of characters, and lots of missing line breaks / paragraphs. I’m completely aware of that, and I’m always trying to section and format my texts in a manner that makes it usable for readers ;) I think the limit of 990 chars is not contributing to avoid walls of text. (It’s easy to build a a wall of text with only 500 chars, but I think you got what I mean…)

Some huge (and tiny) news coming out of the PTR today, as we're finally getting some mount size adjustments for Gnomes and Tauren! This has been a long-standing issue since...well since Vanilla really, with Tauren getting stuck on doorways and a lot of the mounts for both races never looking quite right. Well, today Gnomes can catch their mount's reins for the first time and Tauren... well they might fit through some doorways. The change only applies to "normal" size mounts for Tauren, as smaller ones (like hyenas) remain unchanged. Blizzard can now also fix issues where some mounts appear too small for certain races and they're looking into it.
This tutorial will ensure that the beginning of your journey will be a smooth one. It provides information that will help you find your way when you get lost, as well as tips that will offer guidance and advice as you march on towards greatness. It is not an exhaustive guide, however; it neither can nor wants to unveil every secret of Azeroth to you. That glorious task is left up to you as you explore the world yourself. Think of this guide as a touchstone for your early adventures: enough to get started, but too little to spoil any of the awesome surprises that await you in Azeroth.
Professions in Battle for Azeroth Professions in Battle for Azeroth, the next WoW expansion after Legion, have received a significant update, with many new recipes as well as a significant skill squish. In this overview, we'll highlight the major recipes, reagents, and useful items each profession offers. Battle for Azeroth Alchemy Guide Everything about Battle for Azeroth Alchemy including trainer locations, potions, flasks, reagents, transmutation, and special Alchemy-only perks. How the Scrapper in Battle for Azeroth Works Full explanation of how the Scrapper works in Battle for Azeroth and how to properly use it to get the crafting materials you need from unwanted gear.
This tutorial will ensure that the beginning of your journey will be a smooth one. It provides information that will help you find your way when you get lost, as well as tips that will offer guidance and advice as you march on towards greatness. It is not an exhaustive guide, however; it neither can nor wants to unveil every secret of Azeroth to you. That glorious task is left up to you as you explore the world yourself. Think of this guide as a touchstone for your early adventures: enough to get started, but too little to spoil any of the awesome surprises that await you in Azeroth.

When hovering over an ability, the tooltip will tell you whether or not that attack is weak or strong against certain pet types. Additionally, you can hover over the opposing team's pets and view their attacks during combat. This will be important since it’s a good idea to pit a pet that's strong against the opponent's pet who's vulnerable to that type.
So committed, in fact, that modern WoW players are trying the beta and reporting what seem like bugs today but what were actually intended functionality 13 years ago. This became such a common occurrence that Blizzard publicly posted a list of known non-issues called the "WoW Classic 'Not a Bug' List." For example, hitboxes for the Tauren player race are much larger than those of other races. In a modern game, this would be seen as a serious balance issue (see: Apex Legends). But it's what vanilla WoW was like, so it has been faithfully reproduced.

Nov 9 Trial and veteran account restrictions Okay so this is something that Definitely needs to be brought to the attention of the entirety of the player base. The Restrictions for anyone who is on a trial account are as follows. - Characters that are created cannot be leveled beyond 20. (Keep in mind the max level today is 120.) - The maximum amount of gold your characters can carry is 10 gold. - The maximum amount of skill you can obtain in any profession is 100. - The only people who can see you /says and /emotes are any players who are not 10 levels above your own level. (This means the maximum level players can be before the can no longer see your emotes or /says is 31.) - The only players a trial account user can whisper, is anyone who happens to have that specific character on their friends list. - Players of a Trial account are not allowed to make use of Auction houses, Mailboxes, or any form of trading between players. - Trial account players cannot join or create any guilds. - Trial account players are unable to access Trade, Local defense, or General chats in any zone. - Trial account players are unable to invite people into parties. - No pet battling. ... For Veteran Account players, the only difference is that a Veteran account can join a guild that one of their other characters is already in. The reason this is being posted is simple. It has been very rare for me to be able to find anyone who understands the idea of a level 4 not having says or Emote during RP because of them being a Trial or Veteran account. Players who do not understand this, end up getting offended with the Trial or Veteran account owner even though they have no control over these restriction. This needs to stop. It's hard enough already as a player who is using a restricted account without players who are not attempting to understand the situation, getting hostile towards these players and completely ruining the game for our newer and Veteran players. Before a GM tries to shoot this down if they have a reason to... Keep this in mind. It's true that these users who use Trial or Veteran accounts are not paying anything, but they are still players and should be respected just as much as the players who do pay. I'm not saying remove the limitations... make people aware of the restrictions. There are players who don't know about them simply because they never had to put up with it. This makes them ignorant towards those players who do use those trial and veteran accounts and will not think twice about putting them down for something they have no control over. You can tell them to report those player all you like, but at the end of the day..... There are a lot of players who don't know about them. MAKE PEOPLE AWARE OF THE RESTRICTIONS. I'm doing so myself, starting with this thread.Eindrache4 Nov 9
Combat is turn-based and there is no time limit on each round in a PVE Pet Battle. You can take your time to determine which spell to use next. Some pet abilities have multiple round cooldowns, while others can do extra damage if certain conditions are met. Be creative and have fun testing which combination of attacks works best against different wild pets!

Nov 6 Who is this? in Westfall, there is a quest called "livin' the life" where you have to go into a cave and hide inside while you listen to a conversation between Glubtok (a boss in deadmines, who is a giant two-headed ogre) and a "Shadowy Figure"(it's a female btw), you can actualy see the figure, it looks like a priest in shadow form or something like that. In the Dead Mines dungeon, there is a worgen boss who is named admiral something dont remember, and once you kill him, he says "You will never find her, until it is too late." I believe he's talking about the shadowy figure. Just wondering but who exactly is "she" or the "shadowy figure"?Rubberchops6 Nov 6
The Horde 12-20 (Barrens + Stonetalon Mountains) guide has been rewritten and revamped.  In addition, there has been numerous tweaks to the speedrun route to make things faster and easier to follow.  Also, in case you haven't noticed I am now adding about 40% more info per step and redoing all the images.  Unlike with my previous vanilla guides, I am now giving a brief explanation of where to go and what to do with each step along with any other helpful tips.
It seems the first stress test didn't quite do the job yet, as Blizzard are scheduling a second one next week, due to more issues with the first one than were anticipated (mainly of the login screen variety). Everyone that was invited to the first one will also be invited to the second, the level cap will be raised to 10 and it will also be available for a full day, starting at 2pm PDT on Wednesday, May 29th.
If you just want the short version of this review, Zygor Guides are the best WoW leveling guides. Period. They’ve been around since 2007, and are always kept up to date and improved, and they have tons of features that set them apart from the competition, not to mention a streamlined leveling path and slick user interface. It’s no wonder that they’re the #1 best-selling WoW guides, because they’re simply the highest quality. Updates are typically released in advance of major patches and expansions.
Mar 15, 2017 RAF & Recruitment Does NOT Belong Here (FAQ) I figured I'd nip this in the bud before it starts up in the new forum. Original post is copied from Munbar of Wyrmrest Accord, but I've expanded it. Q. My new RAF thread keeps getting locked, why? A. The New Player Help and Guides forum is no longer being used for RAF. Q. Why did my reroll/leveling partner post get deleted or moved? A. Because rerolls and "LF leveling partner" posts are deemed recruitment threads, and recruitment threads do not belong here. They belong in the realm forums or the guild recruitment forums. Q. But I'm not recruiting! A. In the eyes of the moderators, yes, you are. You're recruiting someone to reroll on a server or join you for leveling or meet in-game. Hence why the threads will be locked/deleted or moved to the appropriate forum. Posting on a realm forum has a better local audience for leveling partners anyway. Blue post: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/3123312367#7 ... ... Another blue post: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2794651592#6 ... As one of our regulars Monmon so eloquently put it: ... Q. Where do I go to post my RAF or recruitment thread? A. You should head to either the realm forum of the realm you are planning on finding someone to RAF, or the guild recruitment forum on your faction. If you need something like charter signatures or other "local" hookups, go to your server forum. Q. But I'm on a trial account and can't post there! A. Cry me a river. You're still not allowed to post it here. Get an actual friend to recruit you rather than fishing for a stranger on the forums. Q. Why did they stop using the New Player Help and Guides forum? A. The RAF threads were reproducing so quickly that the forum was getting bogged down by the reposters and spam, detracting from the forum's original purpose, which is helping newbies with their WoW questions. RAF does -not- help new players, as the vast majority of RATS (recruit a total stranger) hookups fall through once the trial account is made, or the new player is left with little experience, gold, and the supposed "forum friend" ditches them readily. The forum regulars went on a crusade against the RAF spam, and we finally got Blizzard's attention. The mods have been quickly removing/locking the RATS threads, keeping the forum happy and clean. Q. What action will be taken against me if I keep posting in the New Player Help and Guides forum? A. Your forum account will likely be banned after repeatedly posting the same thread after it has been locked/deleted. Q. Where should I go to suggest a RAF forum? A. Head to the Website Feature Suggestion forum. (http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/1025939/) Q. Can I post in the General forum about RAF? A. As of now, this has been undecided, yet some people have been. It is recommended to go to the guild recruitment forum or realm forum. Q. When will a RAF forum or sticky be made? A. As of now Blizzard is not planning on making an RAF forum or stick. If you continue to suggest it in the Website Suggestions forum, this might change. Thank you for taking your time to read this, please go to the suggested forum stated above before posting your RAF and recruitment threads.Icedragon89 Mar 15, 2017

The primary goal of Conflict and Strife is to provide an interesting choice in PvP by allowing access to an extra PvP Talent. It’s not necessarily going to be a strong option for PvE. The acquisition of this Essence is via PvP, and is totally optional for PvE-focused players. While there may be interesting PvE uses for some of the choices, it is not expected to be a strong competitor on usual PvE criteria (like total throughput) on every spec.


If you haven’t actually gotten to play on the WoW Classic beta, you’ve still gotten to see other people’s reactions and probably have watched a few people stream it. That’s the internet in 2019, some 15 years in the future from the first time we went around with this content, so I’m curious — what have you actually thought and felt, either playing in the old sandbox or seeing other people play?
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